Racism does exist in Australia
Blog Post | Blog of Sarah Hanson-Young
Thursday 7th January 2010, 12:15pm
by in
This week has seen tensions between Australia and India escalate, following yet another attack on an international student. Indian authorities have issued a travel warning about increased violence in Melbourne. The Australian Government is in damage control.
While police investigations into the fatal attack of accounting graduate Nitin Garg in Melbourne and the discovery of the body of an unidentified Indian student in NSW are ongoing, the motives behind these attacks remain unclear.
What is certain however is that there is growing disquiet about the way our international guests have been treated. Yet, our Deputy PM, and the acting Premier of Victoria have been quick to dismiss the possibility that racism may have been a factor in why these young people were targeted, attacked and killed.
While it's too soon to determine exactly what happened, to simply rule out the possibility that racism was involved is neither good leadership nor smart diplomacy in an environment of increased violence.
The Australian Government's indignant dismissal of the suggestion that racism exists in Australia, can only be seen as inflammatory in India, where emotions are still running high. And for those in Australia who have been on the receiving end of racial intolerance and abuse, it must simply be ignorant and insulting.
The state and federal Government's parroting of PR-lines on these attacks has increased the perception of government indifference. The response to the attack on Shravan Kumar last May, the young Indian student who was attacked with a screw-driver through his skull, while strongly condemned by politicians and Government officials, is a case in point.
If Government officials are to be believed, Mr Kumar was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. The attack was "opportunistic" and it was not Mr Kumar's race that made him vulnerable, but rather the fact that he inadvertently walked into harm's way.
As the Senator responsible for establishing the Senate Inquiry in the safety and welfare of international students last year, I have spoken to many of these students about their experiences here in Australia. Most of them are extremely positive, but some have told me that after finding themselves victims of physical abuse they had been told by authorities to not carry iPods with them and to avoid speaking in their own language on public transport. What the?
Since when was it the victims fault that they were attacked by 'opportunists'? Since when do we say that victims of violent assault and fatal attacks were simply 'in the wrong place at the wrong time', or carrying one too many iPods?
Can we honestly say that racism does not exist in Australia? You only need to spend an afternoon listening to talk back radio to understand what I'm getting at.
Not everyone holds intolerant views of people from other cultural backgrounds or race, and out of those who do, very few would act on it. But nonetheless, some people are just bigots. It's true. Narrow-mindedness and racism do exist in Australia, and it's wrong.
We know this racist sentiment is unfounded and stems from an irrational fear of the unknown. But we can't address this, if we pretend it doesn't exist.
Some people are racists and politicians are kidding themselves if they think that by denying this, these people will somehow go away, or no one else will notice them. Every country has its fair share of morons; people who commit acts of violence against others simply because of the colour of their skin, their gender or their sexuality. Sadly, Australia is no exception.
Only by exposing and repudiating racism wherever it exists, are we truly able to move forward as a harmonious and unified community. Ignorant views fester, when we turn a blind eye. Racist ideas only flourish in the shadows, when they are not held up to the light of public scrutiny.
We need leaders to be honest enough to address the issue directly rather than sweep it under carpet, doing so under the guise of the 'new political correctness' that says we can't mention racism because it will whip up a Pauline Hanson style backlash. Yes, racism does exist in Australia and it is wrong. Australia is not immune from morons.
Unfortunately, if you identify racist attitudes in Australia you are all too often accused of being unpatriotic. I love my country and it is for this reason I know we can and must do better. Isn't the quest to be the best country we can be, at the heart of patriotism?
Surely, our political leaders should be mature enough to call a spade a spade and start challenging the views that should hold no place in a modern and tolerant democracy like ours. Only if we do this, can we rightfully market Australia as a prime destination for international students and visitors.
- Sarah Hanson-Young, Greens Education Spokesperson and Senator for South Australia
This piece was first published on ABC Online's Unleashed - http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2787261.htm
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Comments
Indian student deaths
Before we get too carried away with this issue we need to keep in mind that while tragic, murders occur everywhere. To properly assess the risk factors I think it’s important to understand what the likelihood of an Indian student being murdered while studying in India versus studying in Australia.
In Australia there are 21M people and there are 300 murders per annum, the murder rate is 1 in 70,000. In India there are 1.1B people and there are 37,000 murders per annum (highest number in the world), the murder rate is 2.4 per 70,000.
Now the next thing to consider is that the most likely people to be murdered are males between the ages of 17 and 29. In this category the murder rate is around 4 times the background population rate (this is well established).
So in this group we would expect a murder rate of:
a) 4 per 70,000 in Australia.
b) 10 per 70,000 in India.
The next thing to estimate the number of male Indian students in Australia. A bit of research indicates there are around 97,000 Indian students presently in Australia. It is likely that most of these are male given the particular cultural factors in India favouring investment in young men. So let’s assume 56,000 male Indian student who will all be within the 17-29 year elevated risk demographic.
On the basis of the background murder rates we would expect that each year with 56,000 male Indian students studying in:
i) India that there would be 8 murders.
ii) Australia that there would be 3.2 murders.
I have been looking through the research and while there have been a number of attacks (some of which have resulted in permanent injury), I find two murders of Indian students has occurred and none at all in 2009. I concede that perhaps there have been other deaths I have missed, but I would be surprised if I had missed enough deaths to make the case that it is less safe here than in India.
If the above holds (even with fairly large room for error) it would appear that Indian students are much safer in Australia than they would be at home, and that surprisingly perhaps they are also safer than equivalent Australian students.
While any such attack is tragic, the case for Australian xenophobia leading to a statistically significant increase in risk for Indian students looks weak. Instead of the present reaction of falling Indian student numbers, it may be that the safest thing they could is increase enrolments here due to the relative safety as compared with home. It seems quite possible a consequence of the media hysteria (unfortunately as contributed to by Sarah above) may be to increase the risk factors not reduce them.
We need to first ask, could this be a case of an overreaction due to media focus which distorts the true background probabilities and thereby inhibits Indian students from forming a rational risk assessment?
On the basis of media reports you can argue that the world is quite strangely more alarmed about two Indian student deaths in Australia than 37,000 murders in India. Something about that seems just a little off centre.
Jim's argument appears to hold up
Despite the impassioned arguments which inevitably arise around a debate on the nature & degree of a nation's racist tendencies, I think Jim's argument (the first reader to comment & the only one to use logic & reasoning in the face of puerile politics) hits the nail on the head. I can't vouch for his numbers or method (demographically it would be worth looking at the murder rate amongst upper class (i.e. educated) young indian students rather than looking at the nation average - Jim, I know this data probably wasn't readily available for a comment on a blog), but it would be worth the soundbites and/or page space in the popular press to show a statistical analysis of this nature. In addition, using this type of argument at an inter-governmental diplomacy level may serve to minimise the damage done by an Australian (and even more apparently an Indian) media which took a perfect opportunity to conflagrate a potentially benign news event, turning it into the holocaust mk II.
37,000 murders in India ????
I am an Australlian of Indian background. I came to Sydney as a student in 2003. Fell in love with the place and never left. I absolutely agree with Jim's stats on India. Afterall I grew up in the streets of Mumbai. I have seen people get murdered right in front of me.
What I dont agree with is making a direct comparision between Australia and India. People forget that India is a developing country. Some may argue that its a third world country. Where almost 65-70% of the population live below the poverty line and almost all of that demographic is uneducated. Corruption rules the political landscape.
Australia on the other is a developed country. Always proclaims accepttance of all nationalities, religions, races. Unemployment is at its lowest levels in years (taking into account the GFC). Everyone gets a minimum education. Everyone gets a minimum wage (and if you dont work you have Centerlink). It has stable federal and state governments where corrupt officials are exposed and crucified.
Given the circumstances, you can not make a direct comparision. In my opinion one murder here in Australia is equal to a 100 in India. As Australians we should be ashamed to make such comparisions. I moved to this counry because I believed I would have a real chance of giving my family a better life. If not why would I have left India in the first place.
I have had my share of incidents. I got mugged in paramatta once and when I walked into the police station the officer on duty told me to come back the next morning cause I told him I had a glass of wine over dinner. I have to admit that the few times I have approached the police for assisttance, to put it bluntly ....they were useless. I just hope I never have to rely on them for anything.
Living in Australia has changed my life. I have met the best of friends. I have started a family and have a great career. Being in this country has changed my whole outlook on life.
So in closing I just want to make this point "Is Australia a racist country ?" - Not all. "Is it unsafe for overseas students ?" - Yes !!!! Even though this is a billion dollar industry, there is zero investment by the govenment to assist overseas students when they arrive in this country. Even simple things like applying for a tax file number or what to look for in a lease agreement on an appartment or assisttance in finding part time job. It is for this reason students from India live in the worst suburbs cause rent is cheap, work for employees who pay them peanuts and they dont know what their rights are and which authorities they can approach. More needs to be done.
i have a real problem with
i have a real problem with the responses generated by this post.
in particular, in regards to jim's response, i have two major issues.
the first is the numerous assumptions you are making in order to put forward your point. the demographics and reasons behind each one of those 37,000 murders in india are, in fact, quite pertinent to your point. not just a matter of detail as another reader suggested. in what sociol/geographic/economic areas are these murders occurring (ie. is there an abnormally large representation in a particular demographic)? this is as relevant to india's murder srates as to australia's. does india's ratio of male to female assaults / murders actually mirror the western world? what is the ratio of male to female indian students?
the question you are asking (and not even coming close to answering due to all these ridiculous assumptions) is are (the predominantly middle class) indian students in australia more likely to be attacked here or in india?
and the fact is it doesn't even matter, which brings me to my second point.
the fact that so many people here (including our own chief commissioner) are ready and willing to point to the victim as the instigator of these crimes before (and indeed instead of) looking to the criminal and the environment that made him.
sure, if these indian students were flashing gold in the streets of rio's favelas maybe you would have their heads' read. but the fact is, they are not wealthy (as some would have it) or they wouldn't be working in a fast food restaurant in west footscray.. and west footscray is not a favela, as much as Simon Overland might want it.
the indian media are right to jump on this issue, just as the australian media would if good upstanding middle-class australians started getting bashed and killed in good middle-class suburbs for NO REASON anywhere else in the world. it is up to us, and our authorities to find solutions which cut to the core of the problem (ie endemic racism and huge disparities between haves and have nots in melbourne's suburbs) - rather than just suggested people hide their ipods!
Re: fred's problem
Come on now Fred, a short blog response is not the place to deliver a fully worked academic paper. In any event you are hypocritical since you don't remotely meet your own declared standards. In order for the Indian media to be right (as you claim) to jump on this issue then by your standards they need to actually have a basis for claiming that Australia is more dangerous than India.
So since you claim they are right, how is it you are certain India is so much safer for Indian students?
What is inescapable from my surface look is that contrary to the media hysteria the actual murder rate of Indian students in Australia appears to be astonishingly low regardless of any conceivable conditional probabilities expected to be introduced by further facets of a demographic analysis.
The Indian student murder rate here appears thankfully to be so amazingly low that it will in fact be almost impossible to produce a statistical analysis that finds India is safer, even if India had no student murders domestically at all (which seems very unlikely by the way). Basically you generally need more than a handful of cases to produce robust results and despite the number of students and the time they have been here we just don't have that many cases. At this point it was obvious (to me at least) there wasn't a lot of point in dissecting the data further.
I knew full well that there would be an overly sensitive politically correct horrified response such as yours, however I understood in advance that among the readers would be closed minded people with pre-existing points of view that wouldn't be up to making a rational assessment.
You are going to very disappointed if you look to blog posts for answers as you seem to expect. Instead I mainly suggest that there is a good reason to pause and contemplate rather than fall headlong into the hysteria that has only one possible outcome which is to increase the danger for everyone.
The main thing is it was clear that it would be exceedingly difficult for anyone to prove India was safer. In absence of making a case to that effect, the media hysteria looks very misplaced and certainly premature and so we should pause and think about before going off half cocked.
What is it exactly that permits you to accept fairly nasty baseless xenophobic comments from Indians but rages against an attempt at rational analysis of the issue? Could it be some left wing self-flaggelating tendency?
But perhaps not, perhaps you live in some world where murders that don't make headlines simply do not occur. If so, I envy you.
My post does not pretend for an instant to be the final answer. Instead it is intended to *open* a line of inquiry into an alternate point of view to that which the media is trying to swing the more gullible among us in their quest to capture our attention with the ultimate goal of generating advertising revenues.
Racism. Still happening today. No joke.
Very much agreed. I blogged about this around time of the Hey Hey racefail: http://thorfinn.dreamwidth.org/49405.html
Ignoring the problem and pretending it does not exist is just aiding the problem, not helping it to go away.
Racism exists even among politically 'progressives'
I have come across latent aggression against, what I assume to be, ethnics in Australia. Even among so called 'progressives', who claim to champion the rights of minority groups, refugees, transgender groups etc, I find some actually act to exclude persons of ethnicity from their inner or professional circles. Strangely enough this appears particularly true for those 'ethnics' born overseas or with foreign accents. I don't believe this to be a huge problem with Australian born ethnics - I assume this final point.
In several cases I found these persons, especially distrustful of male ethnics, I assume because of their perceived 'foreign' misogynist attitudes.
While I find misogyny abhorrent, to label all ethnics as anti-women and therefore not to be trusted, a bit rich. I know this accusation is hard to prove, but this has been my experience over the last decade - and this experience has been consistent.
A friend recently did not get a contract renewed within a progressive local organisation. He feels this was largely due to his not falling into line with his boss' crude racial jibes about ethnic 'Muslims' (among other things). While this person did not challenge his racist statements (for fear of reprisals), let's just say he didn't laugh convincingly enough.
Australia has a huge problem with racism and this does not only stop at the John Howards and Pauline Hansons among us.
Has someone forget that their
Has someone forget that their a lot of Indians that are actually racist themselves as well and use racism regardless of the attacks that have occurred as a armour and shield of protection to try to get what ever they want when they want it. For example a insistent happened at my work place were a young Indian man which had been charged with 2 offences called our office swearing, name calling and yelling at a staff member, because he couldn't get a certificate by policy to extend his stay. Eventually he turned up to our office and a staff member came to talk to him and he started swearing at everybody and stating that "all Indian's are treated badly by Australians" further screaming "White Racist Australian Pigs" in which he was then thrown out of the office with his bag.
This is just one of the periods of time I have heard of and experienced racism from Indian themselves, I find their is both extreme, mild and unconscious racial problems in Australia that is happening. But one thing I really dislike is when the term Australian is considered White Caucasian in appearance with a European background, when these Indian attacks could also be Australian born Middle Easterners, Asians, Indian's or Africans or migrants themselves of different nationalities.
Further, I find the problems that are occuring know is due to a to much of large migration and movement of not just indian but other nationalities into Australia and their really needs to be a decrease in the numbers.
Racisim In Every Country
After thinking about it, I am unable to identify any country that does not have some form of racism issue. In my view racism is a by product of a Multicultural Society, where, either the majority believe that their life style is being impacted by immigrants (eg. perceived job losses), or the immigrants believe that the Government of their adopted country must ensure they have the life styles they see the majority have. This has always been the case in Australia, especially since WWII, and usually takes a couple of generations for any immigrant group to assimulate. As this has been ongoing for the past 60+ years, I suspect that it will continue for decades to come.
What worries me with the present situation, comes from a statement of one of the Indian student representatives who complained in a Melbourne paper that graduates of Indian or Asian backgrounds were over 60% less likely to obtain a full time job in their trained field, than a non asian. If he is refering to permanent residents, I find this very difficult to believe as I worked in a large Corporation where a sizeable percentage were of Indian or Asian background. If he was refering to graduates on a student visa, what are they doing looking for permanent jobs?, they should be returning to their own country, and the Federal Government needs to clamp down on this.
It was terrible that Mr Kumar lost his life, and I suspect that the Police will find he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are various areas in all cities (in all countries) where it would be dangerous to walk after dark, and unfortunately he was in one where, no amount of Police, have been able to fully control crime for the past 50 years. Sorry, but just look at the numbers of assaults in each of our cities. Anybody who walks alone in a dark area, has a good chance of being hurt, and the Police have no hope in being everywhere at the same time.
A number of years ago I worked in New Delhi, Mumbi, Calcutta and Chenai for a number of months. The authorities in each of the cites had instructed my employer that we were not to walk alone after dark in any area that did not have good street lighting, and a sizeable number of people around. We were to use taxis if needed, and only when ordered by our employer. Walking alone was definately out after dark. To us, this was at times inconvenient, but logical.
In summary, Australia does have racism, but try to identify a country that does not.
International Students & Racism
As an education agent and consultant based in Europe this is no surprise, especially in the context of the past 10-15 years of dog whistling in media, misinormation from Australia's favourite academic demographer, politics and society.
Baird review introduced a revolutionary new communication toll and technique, asking questions.....
How did the whole industry get blindsided by this emerging issue? Even from Budapest we heard past several years from our mature candidates how in TAFEs, private colleges etc. there was at best a patronising attitude toward Indian students or visas requirements being used to shut them up...
Meanwhile (predominantly "skip") TAFE and university personnel are jetting round the world blowing off tonnes of carbon emissions under the guise of international marketing, while ignoring the best channels, existing candidates onshore, alumni, word of mouth, agents and the internet.
Instead of spending the estimated $AUD100million annually on offshore selling (that's just the travel, accommodation & allowances), it could be invested in marketing onshore, i.e. talking to students, and marketing via the internet and agents.
But as several senior TAFE/Uni international people complain, if they used the internet they would not need to travel.....
Would be an interesting question in Parliament, how much is spent on travel by education sector...? http://aiecquest.blogspot.com/
Are International Students Being Fed Misinformation
Andrew, as an education agent you have a very important role in the industry, but some agents / consultants appear to also be part of the problem in 4 major ways. Possibly the only way around misinformation being provided to prospective students is for each education institution to pool together and open an office in various parts of larger student home countries. I suspect that the process of agents / consultants who get paid some form of commission per student recruited, will always lead to misinformation (the Dollar rules), so maybe agents should be put on a salary by the educational institutions.
1. Glossing up life in Australia. Providing prospective students with a view that Australia is a unique multicultural society, with no tension between ethnic groups as is current in most countries of the world.
2. Providing unreal views on where prospective students will be living, while knowing full well that the majority of students will only be able to afford to live in what may be recognised as the roughest, and higher crime rate areas of our capital cities (where the lower rents are possible).
3. Advising prospective students that the police forces in Australian cities will provide security / protection as required, knowing full well the police forces in Australian capital cities are battling to cover their existing duties without trying to babysit foreign students. Sure, if there is a short term problem (eg. a high profile assault) , they will divert resources to work on the problem, but within a few weeks the police resources have to be returned to their normal areas / duties, until the next high profile problem.
and lastly
4. Fostering the belief of prospective students that, when they have completed their course they will be able to apply for permanent residency, and that it is usually an automatic process. Well at least I believe that the Federal Government is clamping down on this, reviewing each case much more carefully. According the Immigration Minister just before Xmas, the last thing Australia needs is thousands more cooks, accountants, hairdressers and pilots etc, so permanent residency applications will be accepted where there is a skill shortage in Australia. This appears to be part of the reason why student visa applications from India are currently dramatically down (obviously apart from the assault / death publicity) as many applicants wanted to complete their courses and have an automatic rite to stay in Australia.
Anyway there is no quick fix, but the whole foreign student business will get worse unless some realistic expectations are instilled in foreign students by whoever is recruiting them. They will also find that their training will not get them permanent jobs, so if they do stay, they will probably finish up driving cabs like the hundreds / thousands currently doing so.
Is that what they really said?
" Yet, our Deputy PM, and the acting Premier of Victoria have been quick to dismiss the possibility that racism may have been a factor in why these young people were targeted, attacked and killed."
I do not believe you have your facts straight, Sarah. From what I have heard of their comments, and I did my best to track them down, they have been quite careful not to come to a conclusion about a motive in the case of the recent murder of a young Indian man or other specific instances of assault. It might be possible that you have picked up on an inaccurate headline.
Otherwise, I totally agree with you that we have a serious racism problem in this country. Incidentally, I am not a Labor hack but a Green voter. I just prefer, in political debate, that some fair rules be applied about quotation and allegation.
hey not you
hey don't tell anything about our sarah. if you are not racist,doesn't mean whole sociaty immune racism, sarah is very honest make her brave to say the truth. australia is inherent racism,and politician denial and think our indigenous, actually needless you to say more than that, cus all we kn.
Australia; Racist or not?
Hi,
Well the insensitivity through which the killing and bashing of Indian students have been dealt with is obnoxious. When David Hicks who consciously undertook training in Al-Qaeda linked groups and fought with Taliban against the allied forces (against own Australians), when Schapelle Corby was caught with drug trafficking in Indonesia, people in Australia went on the street to not just fought for their (unjust behaviour) but also put enormous pressure to brought David hicks back.
When Australians could fight for such convicted criminals bring them home, put their and other governments under enormous pressure, why cannot they fight for the justified, legal and humane tragedy which is happening with Indian students. Aren't they racist?
Matter of fact is all the way from University officials to Society at large have considered Indian Students not guest but just a money minting machine. So what if few parts are dead or destroyed, replace with new parts.
Thats's the blunder committed here, by considering Indian students as taken for granted blackmailing them on the name of visa, showing extreme indifference by Police and others in getting them defending themselves, have made a mess of situation.
Wherever Indians have gone (such as U.S.A, U.K, Canada, Europe) prosperity of those countries have increased exponentially, Indians have brought unique set of skills most notably being honest to they system and these countries they are living in.
Unfortunately, a country who has practiced a "white only" policy for long, it may take never or infinite time to accept and absorb not just Indians but anyone with a different colour and language.
Lastly, what about Dr. Haneef, he was not even proven to be a terrorist who was forced or kicked out of this country and a known terrorist (David Hicks) was brought back in, what a great country? Wish Dr. Haneef was white?
Cheers
Australia Racist or not
IndiStudent, I am not sure what you are arguing.
You state that Society / Universities / Government Authorities treat Indian Students not as guests but as money making machines does seem a little harsh. As far as I am aware they are treated no different to any other foreign student who comes to this country to study, with the above quoted institutions expecting them, and all foreign students, to return to their countries of origin when they have completed their studies. Unfortunately some, not to honest education agents, instill the belief that any foreign student, on completion of their course has an automatic right of permanent residency. I believe that the Federal Government is now trying to ensure all foreign students know that this is not a fact. Sure, if a foreign student has a skill where there is a glaring shortage in Australia, and they wish to stay, their applications for permanent residency will be considered. However this will not now be an automatic process.
You are also quite harsh on the State Police forces. To me they are not indifferent, but do allocate temporary resources from other areas of the cities for a short time to combat issues of violence where they occur. Obviously they cannot remain in trouble areas but must return to their owning districts.
In reference to Dr Haneef, it is acknowledged that this was a stuff up, but as far as I am aware, he has been advised he can return if he wants to. Having said this incident turned out to be a stuff up, does not remove the fact that at the time his relatives were involved in some not so nice acts. Today, in Australia, if any of your close associates / friends / relatives are involved in criminal activities, you can expect to finish up in an interrogation area at State Police HQ, and this is irrelevant of what ever your racial background is. You also need to understand that the Haneef, and Hicks issues were Federal issues not State Police issues, so they are under different Governments. No different to the Indian Federal / Security Police, and their State Police Forces.
Part of the problem may be the high profile / highly published issues involving current / ex foreign students. Eg. The student who, while drunk and speeding in Melbourne, killed a pedestrian, shot through to India (his Indian mate gave him his passport to avoid detection) while on bail, and who the Indian Government is protecting. Or in the past couple of weeks, another student who caused a car accident in Melbourne where a baby was killed, and he did not stop, requiring State Police to track him down, and arrest him.
In summary, I believe all foreign students are welcome in this country for the duration of their studies, and are provided with the protection of the State to the same extent as any permanent citizen or tourist who come to this country. The only possible increased risk, is that many students live in the low cost rental areas where there is an increased chance of being involved in a crime. Those student who live in dearer areas, or on campus appear to be less impacted by assaults or other crimes.
inherent racist
hey donnot you know that 1788 convicted came , killed our first people and took this countrey and still there is convicted generation is here, ha ha get the fact.
And here it is. Perhaps the
And here it is. Perhaps the most illogical, illiterate, fact-free rant by a politician in Australian history. At a time when the crucial debate over responses to climate change can proudly claim to be based on facts and the science, we get this moronic verbal vomit. This unashamed flaunting of rhetorical incompetence and contempt for data and evidence should alarm all of us who rely on the veracity of facts and evidence when considering climate change. If Ms. Hanson-Young is typical of the thinking we can expect from Greens outside the climate arena, they would do well to keep their traps shut.
There is so much gold in this low-rent ethnocentric rubbish, but my favourite is Hanson-Youngs fist-clenched demand that we "call a spade a spade". And yet her whole ramble is based on precisely so calling leading to deaths and assaults of Indians.
For your own sake, love, give it a rest.
You're a loser.
Why do you even bother wasting your time on this website? If you disagree so strongly, get a life and do something enjoyable.
Also, nice patronising, sexist use of the word 'love' to describe Sarah. She'd probably slap you in the face if you did that in person.
That's classy, Skepticus.
First point; "Perhaps the most illogical, illiterate, fact-free rant by a politician in Australian history"? Mr Autartikus, how many speeches and articles by politicians have you actually READ? By this comment it's easy to conclude the answer is nowhere near enough to be telling Ms Hanson-Young that SHE is illiterate.
Second Point; "the crucial debate over responses to climate change..." Please be so kind as to tell us all how the recent brutality against Indian students has any relevance whatsoever to climate change.
Third point; "This unashamed flaunting of rhetorical incompetence and contempt for data and evidence..." Skepticus, there is no evidence as to why exactly these students were attacked. All anyone is doing is speculating. So I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "contempt for data and evidence" as even an idiot knows you don't have to look too hard for evidence that racism exists in Australia, despite our current government pretending so hard that it doesn't.
Fourth point; "love, give it a rest." Oh, well, he MUST be right if he has to turn to sexist patronization to get his point across. Well done, Skepticus, very classy.
This comments field is reserved for the constructive, the relevant, and people who actually have something to say. That's not you. Go back to where ever it is that people who get their kicks out of insulting others from a computer screen normally hang out.
Nice discussion thread
Hello All
First, have a great new year to all my Australians and Indians mates!!
All I have to say is that this is one of the greatest attempt I have seen for discussing the problems that has been there for quite a while between India and Australia.
The best lines of Sarah I found were:
"Unfortunately, if you identify racist attitudes in Australia you are all too often accused of being unpatriotic. I love my country and it is for this reason I know we can and must do better. Isn't the quest to be the best country we can be, at the heart of patriotism?"
Its just fantastic attitude!!
Why not all of us think that way and improve ourselves! I am Indian and have lived in Australia and found it is a great country and I also know that Indian media is uncontrollable. Unfortunately, everyone has got his/her own judgement based on the experience.
Best Regards and lets hope we ALL can be better!
Is racism more prevalent in India?
I cannot understand how comments are being made about racism in Australia when there is a caste system in India? Wouldn't it be worse in India then?
horrible incident in 1788
donot compare anyother country with australia. cus we convicted came and killed all people and took their country,so inherent racist we are, and we have to carry it rest of the life.
OZ Attacks & Solutions
The recent attacks in Australia on a few Indians have attracted worldwide attention and worldwide condemnation. These attacks caused outrage in Indian Media. While the Indian media have labeled attacks as racist, but Australian police and the government have said the attacks are purely criminal.
I myself lived in Melbourne for almost 6 years, initially as a student and after a couple of years I was employed full time. While I personally did not face any issues of racism and found that Australia is a good country, with decent friendly people.
Indians are among the largest community of skilled migrants in Australia from the past many years. Indian professionals in Australia have contributed to the growth of its economy from the past many years. In addition to this Australia has thousands of Indian students studying in various institutes and universities.
My opinions on Reasons for the attack:
Many of these students in Australia generally prefer to hang around and stick to their own fellow mates (mates from the same part of India). This is a natural and accepted, very common among students who are far away from their country. But now it looks like this being taken by some Australians as being unwilling to accept Australian culture and customs. In addition to this many students who have gone to Australia to study may not be very fluent in English and may not be able to communicate in the Aussie slang. The cultural shock can further add to this.
Another major factor for these hate crimes can be the sudden rise of the number of Indian people in all levels of society. There have been discussions and arguments that few Australians are worried about losing their jobs to young educated immigrants from India. The global recession is also to be blamed in this.
The effect of Media on this issue:
Media backlash in India and the publication of the Victoria policeman as a member of hate group Ku Klux Klan further damaged the relationship between the communities. Adding to this was the Indian governments travel warning to Indian students going to study in Australia. The comparison of crime statics of both the countries by the Prime Minister of Australia Mr Kevin Rudd further made the situation worse.
The publication of this cartoon made Australians quite angry and they started to write about India and how safe India was compared to Australia. In one of the leading news papers of Australia it quoted that “In 2007, according to India's National Crime Records Bureau, 32,318 people were murdered in India. Another 3644 were victims of ''culpable homicide'', roughly equating to manslaughter. In a category of its own, 8093 brides or their relatives were killed in ''dowry deaths'' - murdered by greedy grooms and in-laws angry over the amount of dowry paid by the bride's family. And there were a further 27,401 attempted murders.
The Indian media did not react 10 years ago when Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two sons were burnt alive in their car by Hindu extremists in Orissa? Or in 2004 when Australian tourist Dawn Griggs was robbed, raped and murdered by two taxi drivers after arriving late at night at Delhi airport?
By contrast, in 2007, the Australian Bureau of Statistics reports, 255 people were murdered in Australia. Another 28 were victims of manslaughter, and 246 survived attempted murders. No dowry deaths were recorded.
The Australia-Indian community leaders and their religious or social welfare organizations have not issued any strong statements against these racist attacks. While a couple of student organizations or associations made a hue and cry over the attacks. There was a difference of opinion within Australia among Indians for these attacks. I am still surprised that no Indian organization or well settled local Indians take any individual or community action to prevent these ugly attacks? If Yes then what ?
I also saw an interview on BBC last week with Mr Anoop Chopra who is an Indian teacher working in Perth. He said "Australia is a great place to live. I have seen racism among very few Australians but have never experienced it directly. Indians are a relatively new migrant community in Australia and the local population is still ignorant of our culture, religion and values. In spite of that they make a genuine effort to welcome us in their homes and make us feel comfortable in their country.When an Australian is bashed, we call it a crime. When an Indian is bashed, we call it a racist crime"
Lately local Australians also complain on Indians:
Many Australians have complained that Indian students are usually fond of loitering in front of their apartment complexes with loud music blaring the latest out of Bollywood songs. In trains and also in trams Indian students speak loudly in their own language disturbing others. Many Indian students have also violated their visa status and are loitering for jobs. Some of them in search of local Australian females for marriage for residency. Many Aussies also accuse the Indian students of forcing their Indian culture in university campuses by celebrating their hundreds of festivals and cooking their foods. It is also noted that Sydney beaches are full of the drunk impolite Indian students ogling and harassing the women.
My Opinion :
As a education consultant recruiting students to Study in Australia and having lived and worked there every day I am asked questions such as “ Why Australians attack Indians? Are Australians Racist? What’s happening in Australia?”.
Most of said attacks on Indians have been in bigger cities like Melbourne or Sydney. Yes it can be linked urban crime where some elements are attacking innocent victims for robbery and it can be termed also as an opportunistic attacks.. Many Indian students don’t mix with Australian people and the only Australians they know are drunk teenagers often on drugs or homeless teenagers in the streets or on the trains. Most of these crimes are petty robberies that happen late at night. Because many Indian students have part-time jobs that finish late in the evening, they often become victims of these petty crimes. Indian students also have this habit of living in poorer suburbs as the rents are much cheaper which is infested with drug addicts/ anti-socials. The western suburbs of Melbourne are good examples of this. Many young Australian street kids know that they can easily get away from the crime due to the relaxed laws on minors.
Need to take precautions and steps urgently :
The Australian government needs to take steps and work closely with the Indian communities in Victoria. The Victorian police has to put its act together and nab the culprits involved in the crimes as soon as possible. Australia further needs to explain their citizens that their country is a home for many nationalities and their economy is doing well with the support of immigrants.
Indian government must also come out with a pre-departure training for all the students who will be going to Australia soon. The Indian communities in Australia also need to do this. The Australian police further needs to be specially trained in sensitivity issues of racial crime.
Universities / Institutes must also join hands with local agents in India and work towards more cross cultural exchange and training. The Immigration Department of Australia should also get in changes to its policy and encourage good students from India who are going to study in Universities and post graduate courses like USA or UK. It should work closely with universities, ethical agents and create a holistic marketing plan jointly to get good top students from India instead of getting students to study English or other silly courses like hairdressing or cookery. The past policies and assessment levels of university going students needs to be looked into and changes should be done immediately.
The Immigration policy of Australia can be blamed as the main cause for the poor standards of Indian students in Australia. Their hard and strict policies have led to scams and shams in this industry. Its about time they look into it and also make changes to the policy by understanding Indian standards and Indian students. By doing this Australia will prove that Indian students are welcome as quoted by their deputy prime minister
Racism Debate
Racism is a serious global issue spread all over the world. Australia is no stranger to this. Discrimination and acts of racism occurs against nearly all minority groups everywhere in the world not just on Indian students in Australia. Racism and hate can also be a reason for attacks in Australia but again the racism issue has been overplayed by the Media. The media made it look like every Indian is being attacked and targeted on the streets of Melbourne. I am confident that the attacks were a very unhappy and sad coincidence. Tag of ‘racism’ will only complicate things and sow the seed of hatred. It is better to look deeper into reasons of crime.
The voice of Indian students in Australia has been heard by the highest authorities in Australia government today. The governments of both the countries also have been in a dialogue over this issue. The government of Australia has assured strict action on the accused. In addition to this it is taking steps to safeguard the student community and we must give them some time.
Conclusion
The demands on the media, whether in Australia or India, are similar. They need to create sensation and attract largest number of viewers. Some sections of the media often ignore the facts, are irresponsible and can cause a lot of damage.
There will always be some bad / hopeless people (in both Australia and India) but they should not be allowed to spoil the relationship
View my blog: http://nishidharreddy.blogspot.com
A racist comment does not mean at attack was racially motivated
Yes, people get mugged in the seedier parts of our cities late at night, its a crime problem. These are predominantly crimes of opportunity. Just because a mugger says "Give me your wallet curry muncher" or "fatso" or "four eyes" does not make a target of opportunity crime a racist attack or a hate crime, even if the victim may perceive it that way.
Thin and weedy people tend to be easier to overpower than those of sturdier build. Victims of crime give the best descriptions of an attacker when they are of the same ethnicity (its the "they all look the same effect" when describing someone of a differing ethnicity). Putting this together, Indians out late at night by themselves, 1. probably have a job, and hence money; 2. tend to be easy to overpower due to their build; and 3. are unlikely to give a good description of their attacker to police. It is this combination that makes them great targets of opportunity, and this has very little to do with racism. If the average Indian was built like the average Tongan we wouldn't be having this conversation.
The interaction that many Australians have had: with Indian call centre workers after long waits in a telephone queue; with Indian cold calling workers over substandard telephone links who refuse to take no as an answer; and the racial clashes at international cricket fixtures, have done the local Indian community few favours. Similarly Australia has been marketed to Indian students as too safe, and too ideal, impossible benchmarks for which we can do nothing but fail to reach. Such failings do not lie in the hands of the average Australian, nor in the hands of the average Indian, instead they lie in the hands of a relative few who are placing profits, commissions, or victory, above any consideration of international goodwill. Shame on them.
hey poor defender
hey p, d start to study australian history, politict, policy,indigenous, from 17788 till now , don't need to go farthur, would know what the racism meaning, ho ho.
Indian Attacks
This is an appalling situation & I agree with the above suggestion that this is a by- product of multiculturalism as much of the racism comes from several ethnic groups, not only Anglo Australians. When it comes to financial hardship, it's the oldest trick in the book to blame the immigrant & this line is usually peddled to the least educated among us. Fear of those who are different is racism writ plain, a tactic used by racist groups throughout history. It's a fine line between patriotism & racism, I personally blame a lack of education regarding the facts both economic & social. Whether we like it or not it is plain to see on Australia day when young men adorn themselves in the flag & the southern cross, an attitude seems to go with the patriotism that is not far short of xenophobia.
If only these young people knew the actual history behind these symbols & the many nationalities that were involved first hand in these historical events, perhaps they would regard the situation differently.
Indians
I am not surprised that Indian men are getting a bit of biffo. They get a job driving taxis....they cannot drive, they don't know where the hell your destination is, and they NEVER have change of a $50 note. Nor can they speak our language understandably.
And you wonder IF they are getting bashed because of racism.
Racism is hating someone because of their ethnicity. But if we hatefully bash them for the reasons above, it is not racism.
man with zero knowledge
hey zero, don't you know that we didn't speak english in here untill only 1788, learn our first australian language that had spoken here within 50 thousands here, what more to say you, pointless. ha ha
'Australia - a different light.'
Hey, we get it now.
White Australia, perhaps?
Not fair dinkum, ya reckon?
Ponder this.
Many Australians react with displeasure to the accusations of racism.
A shame that many Australians react with scantly any displeasure
to the attacks on Indians.
This only serves to feed the accusation of racism (even if the jury is still not in on that one).
Racism in Australia
Racism in Australia exists and you don't have to look very far. Have a look at the Television program and advertisements. You will hardly find a non-white face. If you walk down the street the number of non-white faces are overwhelming, but that is obviously not reflected in the media. There seems to be some kind of collusion between the media and the powers that be, that surely points to an institutionalised form of racism.
Accept that racism exists and do something about it or one of these days, things may well go beyond control
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